Willow Alternatives [Beware 56K]

[Mumbles]

Originally posted by Spudgunpyroboy:

 

 

Please note this is taken from Black Powder Manufacturing Testing and Optimising, authored by Ian Van Maltitz. I am not listing powders in order of speed, or giving specifics of the woods that can be found in the book. I highly recommend that you purchase this. It can be found on the AFN website for about $20.

 

Here you will find a (hopefully) informative guide to other woods that can be just as good, if not better than the overrated willow.

 

Ailanthus (Ailanthus altissima): Now has the status of a weed in certain areas, which means it's thriving.

 

http://www.chlorischile.cl/cursoonline/guia9/ailanthus.jpg

 

Alder (Alnus rubra, Alnus tenufolia, Alnus glutinosa, Alnus cordata): Red Alder (Alnus rubra) makes very fast black powder and ranked among the top in some tests.

 

http://www.dolphinplace.com/bg-alder%20leaves%202.gif

http://www.dolphinplace.com/bg-red%20alder.jpg

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/environment/culres/ethbot/a-c/images/AlnusRubraTree.jpg

 

Apple: A certain variety of apple wood gave some of the fastest black powder in some tests. This variety is called Pyrus Mains. I couldn't find any information on this variety so I wouldn't be suprised if this is a typo.

 

Aspen: "Aspen is related to willow and is a member of the poplar family. It makes good Black Powder charcoal." He gives specific mention to Trembling Aspen (Populus tremuloides Michx.) and that it ranked among the top of some tests. Here are some pictures of Trembling Aspen:

 

http://www.richmond.edu/~jhayden/recent_travels/Utah_August_2004/populus_tremuloides_03s.JPG

http://tolweb.org/tree/ToLimages/Populus_tremuloides0068.jpg

http://www.swsbm.com/Britton-Brown/Populus_tremuloides.gif

 

 

Balsa: Due to the cost of balsa not many have really tried to use it. I can tell you that some people at rec.pyro have had very good results with balsa.

 

Bamboo (Bambusa sp.): "Can be traced back to some of the earliest Chinese developments of Black Powder. Bamboo was one of their preferred charcoals along with willow."

 

Buckthorn: Alder Buckthorn (Rhamnus frangula L.) and Carolina Buckthorn (Rhamnus coroliniana) ranked among the top performers in certain tests.

 

http://www.swsbm.com/Britton-Brown/Rhamnus_frangula.gif

 

http://www.swsbm.com/Britton-Brown/Rhamnus_caroliniana.gif

 

http://www.mntca.org/Reference_manual/Tree...20-10-11-04.jpg

 

Cottonwood: This is a type of Poplar, which is related to the willow. Apparently this replaced Willow during the civil war because it was in short supply. He mentions that Narrow Leaf Cottonwood (Populus angustifolia James) ranked among the top performers in certain tests.

 

http://www.swcoloradowildflowers.com/Tree%20Enlarged%20Photos/3poan3.jpg

http://www.swcoloradowildflowers.com/Tree%20Enlarged%20Photos/2poan3.jpg

http://www.swsbm.com/Britton-Brown/Populus_angustifolia.gif

 

Grape Vine: Suprisingly, grape vine burned at about 75% of the rate that the fastest powders did in certain tests. Another test had worse results. In my opinion, grape vine is just another overrated source of charcoal.

 

Lime: "Charcoal made from the wood Lime trees is mentioned in J.R. Partington's A History of Greek Fire and Gunpowder. Lime wood may be worth experimenting with. Other citrus trees such as orange, lemon, grapefruit, and tangerine could also merit investigation."

 

Maple: There are a dozen different types of maple in North America and even more worldwide. GOEX is thought to use maple and DuPont is thought to have used it at some point. In two seperate tests maple ranked among the fastest. In one of those tests, silver maple (Acer saccharinum) was used.

 

http://www.salisbury.edu/arboretum/Acer/AcSai/photos/AcSaSL01.JPG

http://www.biologie.uni-ulm.de/systax/dendrologie/acersacchlv.jpg

http://www.swsbm.com/Britton-Brown/Acer_saccarum.gif

 

Paulownia (Paulownia tomentosa): Shimizu rated this very highly and some say that it's better than willow. In the tests, it ranked among the fastest. Some pyrotechnic stores sell this charcoal. These are VERY fast growing trees, and they're very beautiful too. If your parents will let you plant a tree on their yard as a small source of charcoal, this is the one. For more info go here: http://www.paulowniasupply.com/index.htm

 

http://www.arbolesornamentales.com/Paulownia%20tomentosa.jpg

 

Plum (Prunus domestica): This actually topped the list of one of the tests. It has a very low ash content. These shouldn't be too tough to spot out because they usually have plums on them :.

http://www.arbolesornamentales.com/Prunus%20domestica.jpg

 

Charcoals that just might have some potential:

 

- Rye (used in cocoa powder)

- Hay

- Alfalfa

- Citrus trees

[Von Bass`]

Hello all

 

here are two others that i have tried in compositions::

 

Cane:

 

Taken when i ran out, it was a lot better than i thought it would be. I would say it was about 20% slower than average willow. Made beautiful fountains and rockets!

 

Hemp:

 

This was quite slow, but made the loveliest sparks I'v ever seen, quite simalar to Lampblack - soft but long lasting. This could just be the compositions i tried them in!

 

Balsa:

 

Very very very fast! I would say a meal of this can be as fast as a ball milled willow! Unfortunatley its not at all dense, so a lot of expensive balsa doesent give much BP.

 

Thanks

[Rooster]

I see. The balsa part is very interesting. Is balsa native to south america or africa? Some people should be able to find the trees... Then it would not be as expensive. Also, is the BP made with balsa very fluffy, like I would expect the charcoal to be?

[Givat]

The only source for balsa I know is Hobby shops - for flying-models.

But the balsa is processed in some whay, dried in special process.

 

Is that the balsa you used?

[Von Bass`]

yes thats it, I make quite a few model planes and i had lots of offcuts, so i bunged about 5g in a tin. I dont know about the drying processes, and yes the BP is very fluffy!

[Pretty green flame]

yes thats it, I make quite a few model planes and i had lots of offcuts, so i bunged about 5g in a tin. I dont know about the drying processes, and yes the BP is very fluffy!

I can also confirm that balsa BP is very fast but very unpractical as the price of balsa wood is very high. Once tried to cook some balsa and the yield was terrible but the 50grams of charcoal i measured had a volume of around a 0.75liter. Very light stuff.

 

I can also recommend Beech charcoal, it is mostly used as general BBQ wood charcoal, where it is common, but i read on rec.pyro it is one of the prefered woods along with willow, poplar, alder..... I can also say from my own experience that BP made from this wood is very powerfull.

 

And as it has a higher ash content it need a different formula and a longer milling time becouse it takes longer to powder cuz it's a hard wood.

 

The fomula i used is

 

KNO3: 72.7%

Charcoal: 18.2%

Sulfur: 9.1%

 

Movie of Beech BP: http://petelin.gozdis.si/~jakal/Movies/Gun%20powder.wmv

 

Comments: Not quite the best quality becouse it has not been milled long enough but proof enough that you don't need willow or alder for high quality BP

[justanotherpyro]

I can attest to BP made with newspaper. I cooked newspaper just like any other charcoal, and it made lightning fast meal powder and burns fiercely. In comparison with 48 hr meal powder made from walmart bought charcoal it was 2X as fast. After wetting to make true BP they were about the same.

[Draco_Aster]

Newspaper is probably my favourite charcoal for use in blackpowder. Its easy and fast to cook and I like to use small flakes (I would say about .3mm square) in fountains and some stars to leave long lasting sparks. BP made with newspaper is the fastest I have ever made.

 

What if you just washed the charcoal after cooking to remove some ash? Would that be of any benifit?

[d4j0n]

You cook the newspaper just like you would wood?

 

And about cooking wood, do you guys remove the bark or dry the wood before cooking?

How about lumber from home depot or something?

[Mumbles]

Yes, you cook newspaper like you would wood. Yes, you remove the bark, and drying the wood is not neccesary, though I usually have it sitting around enough that it does dry. As far as lumber, I don't see a problem as long as it isn't treated. Treating could cause some problems, or mess up the charcoal, or do something to the cooking container.

[d4j0n]

What tool to you guys use to remove the bark? Knives and rasps are a pain in the ass, anything more efficient?

[Zeppelin]

If its thick bark, use an axe. If it's the thin stuff you can generally pull it off in strips when its wet.

[Mumbles]

For thin bark I don't even bother. For thick stuff, after it dried, a hammer takes it off well. An axe would also be appropriate.

[justanotherpyro]

Yes, you cook newspaper like you would wood. Yes, you remove the bark, and drying the wood is not neccesary, though I usually have it sitting around enough that it does dry. As far as lumber, I don't see a problem as long as it isn't treated. Treating could cause some problems, or mess up the charcoal, or do something to the cooking container.

Pine wood scrounged from construction sites has always served me well. The darker almost green looking stuff with all the divets in it is crap. its almost as bad as burning an oil treated rail road tie.

[chappers]

thats the stuff you want to avoid its pressure treated and contains loads of nasties including arsenic, chromium and formaldehyde. Burning it is the last thing you want to be doing.

[Douchermann]

If you use branches of a certain tree, do the leaves need to be removed?

[Rooster]

The leaves will not make a big difference in performance, seeing as it will make up very little of the total charcoal weight. It might contain some more salts and stuff than the trunk and branches though, so I would take it away. Doesn't really take much time. Then again I'm a perfectionist.

[d4j0n]

Whats wrong with bark in the charcoal? I use branches of alder ~1" in diameter and chop em thinner later. Does the bark off something that small that need to be removed?

[BigBang]

The problem with the bark is that all sorts of crap is found in it, mainly dirt. If this is used in your BP, you just milled a heap of crap.

 

I debark mine just to be safe, but you might be able to skip this step. Don't take my word on that advice because I have never left the bark on.

[kwstag]

I get 100% pure charcoal from the home depot.. i found it today. its 3 bucks.

 

http://i1.tinypic.com/xf8660.jpg

[Mumbles]

Ok, this thread is not about where to get charcoal, or how to make it. It is more for use as a experimenting with different types of woods.

 

BTW kwstag, that charcoal is way over priced. Look for hardwood lump charcoal. It is like $7 for 20 pounds.

[Douchermann]

Does anyone think maybe dry grass could be made into charcoal and used?

[kwstag]

Ah. Sorry, because I had made a thread about Charcoal and I was told this was the thread to talk about it and the thread was deleted.

[ActionTekJackson]

Does anyone think maybe dry grass could be made into charcoal and used?

I have tried this, along with hay, alfalfa, and straw (yea, I live on a farm). They will work, but they burn rather slow. Not to mention it is highly difficult to get very high yields of usable carbon, the process to make it has to be done slowly or you will get mostly grey ash. Overall not worth the effort.

[Douchermann]

Oh okay, thanks. Darn, there goes my easy possible source of charcoal.