new2pyro Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I want to get into making some colored stars and was wondering which basic chemicals I could accomplish this with. I've seen all the comps and mixes but the list of chems goes on and on. I want to make some different stars to use in my rocket headers. Any suggestions appreciated. I would like to get some chems to make some basic stars to mix it up alittle. my budget would be 200 or 250 dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I want to get into making some colored stars and was wondering which basic chemicals I could accomplish this with. I've seen all the comps and mixes but the list of chems goes on and on. I want to make some different stars to use in my rocket headers. Any suggestions appreciated. I would like to get some chems to make some basic stars to mix it up alittle. my budget would be 200 or 250 dollars. $200?!? That is a great way to start! Personally I like Winkor 20, Tiger Tail, GE Silicone ll stars, D1 Glitter, Truely Red (passfire) and Firefly. I like them because there are no poisons that could harm your family if you throw the tools in the dishwasher.... er or if you wife dose accidentally D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firetech Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 KP APNa or K benz for whistlesStrontium carbonate or nitrate or both depending on the compbarium nitrate or carbonate or both depending on the compsodium nitrate or oxalate or both depending on the compcopper oxide or carbonate or both depending on the compred gumpvc or parlon (or both)Charcoal is on you.Magnalium if you don't mind the cost and you want metallic star comps You really need only a pound of the coloring agents. I'd say about 2lbs of red gum though and 5lb of KP because you'll use those quite frequently and in greater amounts. The reason I said '____ or ____ or both depending on the comp' so much is because there are so many different comps. You should pick a set of colors that use the same chems. You would only need one of the choices, for now at least, but both is nice to have for compatibility with other comps. Shimizu's work pretty well and don't use a wide variety of chemicals. Eventually you'll just keep acquiring more and more chems as you need them. Just stick to the basics then move on. I got all my color and whistle chems for about $90.00. You'll be surprised at how long 1lb will last. If you get a pound of SrCO3 and use only 13g in a 100g comp that's 3,484.6g of that comp. That's about 7lbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I would go with the following. Potassium PerchlorateRed GumParlonStrontium carbonateBarium NitrateCopper CarbonateMgAl -200mesh Calcium CarbonatePotassium BenzoateHexamineCopper OxideStrontium NitrateSaranSodium OxalateBarium CarbonateAntimony Trisulfide-200 or -325 mesh atomized Al This list is not all inclusive, but it will provide an excellent start. The first list is what I would consider to be the absolute essentials. It contains everything you need for nice red, green, blue, and purple. The second is the expanded basic set that will give orange, yellow, some more complex glitters, and some nicer colors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 (edited) I would go with the following. Potassium PerchlorateRed GumParlonStrontium carbonateBarium NitrateCopper CarbonateMgAl -200mesh Calcium CarbonatePotassium BenzoateHexamineCopper OxideStrontium NitrateSaranSodium OxalateBarium CarbonateAntimony Trisulfide-200 or -325 mesh atomized Al This list is not all inclusive, but it will provide an excellent start. The first list is what I would consider to be the absolute essentials. It contains everything you need for nice red, green, blue, and purple. The second is the expanded basic set that will give orange, yellow, some more complex glitters, and some nicer colors. I will see your chems and raise you.... Potassium Nitrate Sodium BenzoateSulfurAirfloat charcoalDextrinCMCSGRSCopper OxichlorideAluminum 200 spherical mesh Aluminum flake Aluminum 5413H super Potassium ChloratePVC powderAmmonium Lamp BlackSilicone powderFe/Ti 40-100 meshTi Sponge 20-80 mesh Dave Edited November 16, 2009 by dagabu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firetech Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Dave, keep in mind he's just getting started. Most of those things would break his budget too. Specifically including the Si, Ti, Dark Al, FeTi and Lampblack. Plus, depending on who he's ordering from, the chlorate and Al is a no-go for most companies. If you have all those expensive chems I'm happy for you...and a bit jealous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Dave, keep in mind he's just getting started. Most of those things would break his budget too. Specifically including the Si, Ti, Dark Al, FeTi and Lampblack. Plus, depending on who he's ordering from, the chlorate and Al is a no-go for most companies. If you have all those expensive chems I'm happy for you...and a bit jealous I realize that, though thank you you for pointing it out, The chems I first purchased are the ones I listed, yours are different, as I imagine everyone has a different starting point. Dang, this is hard, isn't it? D BTW- Yes, I do have them... and more!! In fact, if you are looking for time fuse or ball mill jars, I am your guy!! D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firetech Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I'll send you a PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I just generated that list by looking at a series of formulas I've tried that had related chemicals. Being a self-confessed out of control chemical collector I like your list better, but was trying to restrain myself. I'd probably have a bunch of people trying to break into my workshop with a large panel truck if I posted my inventory. I can provide the formulas I based my list on if you guys want. Buell Red, Yankie Purple, Shimizu B70, and Emerald Green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tentacles Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I'd suggest spending $40 of that, joining Passfire, and talking to some of the guys in the for sale section there. You could probably stretch the remaining funds much farther than going with skylighter or hobbychems etc. Mike over there has an excellent selection of chems as well as fantastic prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firetech Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Oh, I see now...Dave I thought you were pointing out the chems for a starter when in fact that's your inventory (or part of it). Mumbles, to me it doesn't really matter what you have because I'm sure somewhere in that 2,113lbs you've got in the workshop you've got some good stuff laying around. Although it might take that truck to find it... BTW me metals inventory is SERIOUSLY lacking. I got various Al's and some Ti but I rarely use them. I need some MgAl...but the price... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new2pyro Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 thanks guys. I do have a few chems already that you mention such as potassium nitrate, perc, dl alum, sulpher, dex, titanium. I make my own willow charcoal, but need to expand for the stars. I understand the sets of comps run with certain base chems. I'd like to start with red, green, blue and a glitter. The barium is bad stuff correct? Boric acid seems to be used with the metals alot, could I get around this with just basic comps? I was also wondering who you order through? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 thanks guys. I do have a few chems already that you mention such as potassium nitrate, perc, dl alum, sulpher, dex, titanium. I make my own willow charcoal, but need to expand for the stars. I understand the sets of comps run with certain base chems. I'd like to start with red, green, blue and a glitter. The barium is bad stuff correct? Boric acid seems to be used with the metals alot, could I get around this with just basic comps? I was also wondering who you order through? GE Silicone ll stars, D1 Glitter, Truely Red, all where I said they were... Boric acid is used with Al, Dichromate is used with Mg. They coat them so that you don't explode!! D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Barium salts are indeed somewhat poisonous. A respirator and a good washing up will prevent most issues though. It doesn't bioaccumulate luckily. Avoid exposure and you're good to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aimlesspayload Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I just got the chems necessary for the veline star system... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KruseMissile Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 i started off with the veline color system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Oh, I see now...Dave I thought you were pointing out the chems for a starter when in fact that's your inventory (or part of it). Mumbles, to me it doesn't really matter what you have because I'm sure somewhere in that 2,113lbs you've got in the workshop you've got some good stuff laying around. Although it might take that truck to find it... BTW me metals inventory is SERIOUSLY lacking. I got various Al's and some Ti but I rarely use them. I need some MgAl...but the price... Blah, blah, blah, No, they are some of the best chems to buy. Others may disagree, Please, don't make things personal, it's sloppy. D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swede Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Some of the chemicals are flat-out hard to get, especially barium nitrate. The carbonates of strontium and barium are a bit less noxious than the nitrates. The oxidizer "kings" have to be K nitrate and K perchlorate, with the former making your BP and the latter forming often the bulk of many star formulas, so those should be carefully sourced and bulk purchases attempted on a quality product at a good price. Don't get suckered into $14.00 / lb K perchlorate, because you'll go through that in no time. Look to the pottery suppliers for potassium nitrate and many others, especially strontium carbonate, which is insanely cheap from Seattle Pottery among others. The benzoates are used for whistle. It is nice but not essential to get the benzoate as a fine powder rather than flake, requiring further milling. I have had rotten luck ball milling benzoates and especially chunky red gum. Sometimes it is worth the $$ to get the material in a mesh that is readily usable. Remember too you can spend years exploring charcoal streamers and glitter, never needing more than about 5 chems, the standard BP chems, plus bicarbonate, and maybe a binder or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdmiralDonSnider Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 I take the liberty to post and old guide I worked out. It is not cast in stone, but it is based on both career and safety considerations. Feel free to criticize it! Step I: Making Black powder, charcoal streamer starspotassium nitrate, sulphur, charcoal (two types: one for sparks, another to produce force), alcohol, dextrin Step II: Making glitter starsaluminum (atomized, -300mesh), sodium bicarbonate, boric acid Step III: Making colored stars using organic fuelspotassium perchlorate, red gum, parlon, strontium carbonate, cupric oxide, copper carbonate (basic), barium carbonate, calcium carbonate Step IV: Making colored stars using organic fuels - advanced, making silver stars, metallic fire dust/flitter starsbarium nitrate, strontium nitrate, PVC, shellac, colophony resin, sodium oxalate, sodium nitrate, cryolite, lampblack, aluminum (bright), aluminum (flitter) Step V: Making colored stars using metal fuelsmagnalium (-200 mesh) Step VI: Acquiring additional chemicals to expand meansred iron oxide, antimony trisulphide, ferrotitanium (60-100 mesh), titanium (20-40 mesh), woodmeal (-80 mesh), acetone, gum arabic, silicon, iron powder, linseed oil, zinc powder Step VII: Making chlorate based colorspotassium chlorate, barium chlorate Step VIII: Acquiring additional chemicals to expand means (2)copper oxychloride, cuprous chloride, lactose, hexachlorobenzene, wheat flour, soluble glutinous rice starch, antimony metal powder, stearin, paraffin, vinsol resin, aluminum/magnalium/other metals of various shape/particle size Step IX: Making crackling microstarsbismuth trioxide, lead tetraoxide, NC {replaced} lacquer Step X: Making stars using magnesiummagnesium (-60 mesh) Step XI: Making whistlessodium benzoate, sodium salicylate, petrolatum, vaseline, paraffin oil Step XII: Making flash powderaluminum (dark pyro) Step XIII: Making ammonium perchlorate based colors, strobe starsammonium perchlorate, hexamine, potassium dichromate, various sulphates Step XIV: Acquiring exotic chemicals to expand meanscopper benzoate, saran, hexachloroethane, ammonium dichromate, anthracene, naphtalene, ferro-silicon, gum copal, guanidine nitrate, kunroku, organic dyestuffs, red phosphorus, glass powder, calomel, ultramarine, realgar, paris green Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swede Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 AdmiralDonSnider- That's a good guide, IMHO. Glad you posted it, it'll give guys something to work by in a sensible progression. I agree. It is well thought-out and I cannot disagree with the logic of the process. I think it is important for a beginner to keep in mind (and I still definitely consider myself one) that it takes YEARS to master those elements of pyrotechnology that are considered simple, such as organic-fueled color stars. Everyone wants to rush, to get into exotic things, and the reality is that a shelf containing one dozen chemicals could potentially occupy a hobbyist for a lifetime. A lot of the exotic stuff is nice to have, and I am also guilty of hoarding them, but to be honest, I have not made use of more than maybe 25% of the chemicals in my stash. The remainder are along the lines of "Oooooh, I know I read about Ammonium Dichromate in a Passfire article. The price is right, I may as well snag a few pounds." I guess it's not a bad thing. If there is a great deal, or the possibility that it might become difficult to obtain in the future, and $$ isn't that much of an issue, it cannot hurt to pick some up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdmiralDonSnider Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 I agree. It is well thought-out and I cannot disagree with the logic of the process. I think it is important for a beginner to keep in mind (and I still definitely consider myself one) that it takes YEARS to master those elements of pyrotechnology that are considered simple, Glad you like it. I definately agree with the things you said; even such simple composites as glitter formulas open a field for lifetime research and testing. What I miss in my own guide is information about the amount that makes sense buying. I remember when I started pyro I spent a lot of money into chems I rarely ever need and bought way too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new2pyro Posted November 18, 2009 Author Share Posted November 18, 2009 Thanks for all the help guys. Your lists were exactly the guidance I was hoping for. I ordered some chems yesterday. Like I said I already had chems to make bp rockets. I now will have chems to make alot of the organic basic star comps. That is all I needed to accomplish for now. I will have more than enough to keep me busy for quite awhile. One thing I have learned is to take it slow and try to get one thing down at a time. I joined a local club here and the other site which I'm sure most of you are on and found lots of info there. One thing about this hobby is everyone is very helpful and friendly. That's what makes it fun (besides all the swooshes and bangs of course!) One other thing: what's with the zinc (dangerous when wet) mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firetech Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Nice to see you on your way to colored stars new2. Where'd you order from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new2pyro Posted November 19, 2009 Author Share Posted November 19, 2009 AP and Thunder Valley. I was locked out of the forum on pf and didn't see Michael D and others untill after I ordered. Prices seemedok though, plus barium nitrate was available Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts